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<  Suggestions and Features  ~  general rank & rank by experience

squaled
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:35 pm Reply with quote
Rear Admiral
Level 15
Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Posts: 22 Location: East coast FR
after one post on the french' s forum form Apocryphe concerning some tactical reflex when we do a real race with less than 100 boat , i have purpose to do some upgrade to the way to see the rank of on the site
the reason of this proposal is to keep the new player on the game for the interest of everybody and to motive them
Thus here the idea
OK everybody runs in monotype, which is already a good point, but each one of us please take part well or to gain on race with of the same players levels (I forget voluntarily the history from router: except subject):
-Inshore sailing racers, oceans runner present or passed have the keys with knowledge which accompany them
-online gamers with their assiduities which characterize them
-those which are curious, want to learn and finds a fun & cool community around the plays, and finally those which cannot or do not want to be present too much time on the game.
Thus the concept of handicap times can be put in practice simply (at least an idea, for the technical realization I recognize that I do not have right knowledge)
Thus to make simple
- on the table of general rank , it is easy to add a column to identify the rank & experience of the participants,
- on the play to create in addition to the Friend window an other window with the gamers of the same rank to see our direct opponents (to run with players of the same level)
- Finally the best would be to make a classification between same rank or why not a handicap times in relation of its rank gained.
All comments are welcome
@+Pascal
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Suratna
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:19 am Reply with quote
Admiral III
Level 20
Joined: 02 Jul 2009 Posts: 8803 Location: Thailand TH
hi Pascal o/b squaled

thanks for your effort to thinking on the LS ranking and experiences levels of the different skippers and put it forward in the forum for a discussion.

I read your proposal and do not understand fully what you want. But let me give my views on some parts that I think you mention.

- in LS we are in each race sailing in identical boats with the same sailing capacities. GOOD, this is level playing field. (some may argue that LS members have 10 WP's , while the non-members have only 4 WP's; but for me that is a matter of convenience not of different capabilities of the LS sailing boats)

- in LS there are 2 categories of sailors, OPEN and PASSION. The ranking tables have 3 options to look at the classifications, to see ALL, or only OPEN or only PASSION. In this way, the skippers can him/her self select the comparison for his own sailing performance. GOOD, you can select the level playing field.

- in LS each race and each challenge has a ranking according the shortest sailing time.
On top of that, there are 2 overall Ranking systems to level out the performance of an individual race and level it over either the season of Friday Races (18 best results out of 24 seasonal races) or the 10 last long duration races.
For all these classifications, you may select your desired category for comparison in a level playing field.

- in LS there is the reward system for experience of the sailors, see http://www.liveskipper.com/wiki/doku.php?id=en:community:grade
This offers a ranking in 17 separate steps, that reflect the capabilities of the sailor (the better the performance , the faster the rank increases) and the length of sailing in LS ( the longer sailing, the more races you will have participated in to add to your points for growth)

- LS, is not showing the grade of the sailors in the classifications. this is the point you are making.
LS is however showing the grade (level of experience) in the Boat information window and in the Forum posts. So it is possible to check the experience levels of the boats sailing aside of you.

- To make it easier to compare your results with those skippers of equal experience, it would be nice if in the ranking list a column in the table to show the grade was made. Good Proposal.
I would extend this even to proposing an extra selection criteria (similar to what is now for category) to make it possible to select a grade and get a ranking for all boats with that grade.

- I understand from your post, that you are looking into a kind of handicap to level the performance of the sailors and thus you hope to create a level playing field.
In real sailing races different boat types are given individual handicaps; but not the skippers!
Also in golf playing it is done to allow players of different capabilities to play together. In tennis something is done, but in a way that in tournaments the weakest players are playing the strongest, I guess in order to protect the strongest group of getting overrun by new talent Wink


Now, would a handicap in virtual sailing be possible, be desired Question that are the big questions.

-- do we want a handicap would be my first question?
I had, working in India, a wise guru and he told me :"you compare yourself to the lowest in the class and you will become complacent and closing in to him, but you compare yourself to the best in class and you will improve and become the best in class" This moto has become my life-moto.
So for me, a handicap is not good, as I like to compare myself with the best and not with the equal sailors, (to stay equal) or to the lower ranked sailors (to getting worse results). A visibility of grade, in the classification, YES, that will help to discover the more experienced sailors, and selection to show a special grade that is fine but let it be one pool per category.
-- can a handicap be made?
for a handicap to be realistic and fair, it has to be consistent. The results, at least for me, in LS are fluctuating dramatically depending on the starting time of a race (especially FR's) whether I do see the good wind system coming or will miss it. It will thus be very difficult to make a handicap that reflects the sailing capacity of LS skippers.
the present Grade could maybe be used for it, but that reflects apart from the sailors capacity also the number of years sailing in LS; even the lower preforming sailors will over time grow to the higher grades as each race adds points.

So concluding my view:
- an additional reporting and maybe selection of grades in the classification/ranking is a good proposal to offer an option to see skippers of similar capability
- a handicap system, is difficult to make as a fair and consistent system and I personnaly would not promote it as I like to compete with the best in class.

_________________
Ard-- http://vor201718.blogspot.com/ ; http://paper.li/ardsur/1345867159#
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squaled
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:16 pm Reply with quote
Rear Admiral
Level 15
Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Posts: 22 Location: East coast FR
Good Evening Suratna


Please give 2 minutes for the setting of my boat on the actual FR : sails OK /AP in TWA mode : done / radar in SR & AIS engaged / and fenders all around the hull are in position .

so let’s go to the charts table , despite the intense traffic on my screen, to answer you and to great you too for your involvement in LS .

The last suggestion regarding the idea to create a handicap times in relationship with the level of the players was done too quickly, I was just finished to do my course in the race sail the globe, and when I wrote this chapter I would supposed than my brain was always in my fingers…..
The first words of the sentence are more WHY NOT TO CREATE and not FINALLY THE BEST…..
I’ m sharing your opinion at 100% for the points than you mention: in real regatta the handicap time is applying to the boat not to the crew, the only advantage is to have sometimes animated talking after the race in the pub. The reactions on the French forum for the same suggestion are diverse and follow more your meaning. Moreover I will suppose that is not so easy to modify the program to obtain this result.

But I would to add than for the game is to earlier, LS is a young platform and perhaps it will be certainly one last ways for the last evolutions.

Concerning your explanation provided by yourself for the different ways to evaluate his level we have actually 2 criteria: Passion/open & the grade depending of the numerous factors than you had described.

But there is also on the welcome screen the choice between experts and beginner’s mode: the suggestion was more done for new players, medium players to keep their motivation, to identify a target easily and to continue to progress
The goal is to create a second race (players of same level) in the race in addition of Passion/Open
The intention of the proposal is to add third criteria can be do as follow
-By having a quick snapshot of your rank during the race with a second board added to the friends’ board
-By having on the race rank and the overall rank one more column where appear your level.

ATB
Squaled
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Hallberg
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:28 pm Reply with quote
Admiral II
Level 19
Joined: 24 Jun 2009 Posts: 11051 Location: Tournieres, Basse Normandie. (and England) FR
Eh....Guess what? None of it will ever happen.....Save your breathe.... Wink

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squaled
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:43 pm Reply with quote
Rear Admiral
Level 15
Joined: 05 Nov 2010 Posts: 22 Location: East coast FR
hi
that's sure !!
I will prefer to save my breathe not for the fender , right now the starting line of this Friday is on the back of my transom
Wink
it wil be better to use it to blow the code 0
Laughing Laughing

congratulation !! how do you guess than i live in Neverland with the lost children ?

Razz Razz
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Suratna
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:32 am Reply with quote
Admiral III
Level 20
Joined: 02 Jul 2009 Posts: 8803 Location: Thailand TH
squaled wrote:

But there is also on the welcome screen the choice between experts and beginner’s mode: the suggestion was more done for new players, medium players to keep their motivation, to identify a target easily and to continue to progress
The goal is to create a second race (players of same level) in the race in addition of Passion/Open
The intention of the proposal is to add third criteria can be do as follow
-By having a quick snapshot of your rank during the race with a second board added to the friends’ board
-By having on the race rank and the overall rank one more column where appear your level.

ATB
Squaled



Yes, you are right that there is a Beginners Mode and an Advanced Mode of sailing. Other than for the category, which is fixed with the registration for a race, however, the Mode of sailing can be switched at any moment. So there is no proper control.
I see your intention, to give a group of starting virtual sailors, the option to compare themselve with other similar sailors. That would require a reprogramming for the sailors Mode.
Question is how many players are using the beginner mode, and for how long Question
My thought is that new players, may start with the Beginners Mode, but that they will swoop to the Advanced Mode within the same race already and will not sail more than one race in the Beginners Mode.

I think therefore that it is not worth the effort of changes, but rather would suggest that if a selection on Grade would be possible, the new players can compare themselves with the Grades, "Junior" or "Able" Seaman. If so they soon will sail alongside the better sailors.

_________________
Ard-- http://vor201718.blogspot.com/ ; http://paper.li/ardsur/1345867159#
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